Episode 8 - Questions and Answers

Whitten and Maggie answer questions from listeners. 

TRIGGER WARNING: Domestic Violence

Transcript

Introduction

Whitten 0:00

Hi , my name is Witten and I'm Maggie , and this is episode eight of Unmute and this is our fun Q&A episode . So thank you everyone who submitted questions . We're excited to answer them .

Maggie 0:11

Yes , we're very excited .

Whitten 0:12

I've actually pulled out the questions , so Maggie's never even seen a lot of these questions . So this will be fun , and I've tried not to think about them too much , so that we are going into this a little bit candidly , so you can hear us just off the cuff .

Maggie 0:28

Even though this episode is a little bit different , we still want to call out our trigger warning that this podcast deals with domestic abuse and we will say this one last time for this season , but the names have been changed to protect the guilty as well as the innocent .

Whitten 0:41

So , without further ado , please enjoy episode eight of Unmute .

Maggie 0:47

So this first section of questions that you all have submitted , thank you . I'm going to be asking Witten , and they're all dealing with coping with the fallout and rebuilding of her life after her trauma . So question one , ms Montgomery . Thank you , ms Patton Was your record wiped clean ?

Whitten 1:05

Oh , that's a tricky question . Yes , my record was wiped clean because nothing was ever charged against me . Unfortunately , when there are charges against you , they do go on your record . That being said , I did pay my lawyer to clear my charges and they all are technically cleared , but when you run certain background checks , you can still see that there was a dismissed case , which I hate .

Maggie 1:27

So if somebody were to look you up , if they dug deep enough , would they be able to see that you in fact were arrested and why ? Or you're saying like it's been expunged , but I don't know .

Whitten 1:40

So it is completely wiped clean . So if you do a traditional government background check , that would not come up because that's been wiped clean . But as soon as your charges appear they instantly go on these websites . I mean , maggie saw my mugshot in like 10 minutes so they instantly go up on websites that don't take them down unless you reach out to them and pay them . So even though you pay for them to be removed . This goes on countless websites that then they're there and things like truth finder and other ones and I know truth finder cause that's where I subscribed because of crime junkies that one it's still there and there's just so many websites and all it says is that there was a dismissed case , but it does say that there was a case in North Carolina .

Maggie 2:18

Okay , so it's . If you were like looking for a job , like you're saying doing background check , that's not going to pick up , it should not , right ? But like .

Whitten 2:26

But it is still out there , which is just very unfortunate . So that means anybody who's innocent and has dismissed charges , it could appear . And that's just what has become of this internet era of everything being recorded so quickly and then everyone out for money . Yes , so I've paid a lot of sites to take it down because it's I can prove that it's gone right , but that would mean finding every single website to reach out to . So , yes , my record is wiped clean . There's nothing on my record like as witten montgomery , if you looked me up .

Maggie 2:55

I in the government , I'm fine , okay question number two did anyone from the town you were living in reach out to you after the incident occurred ?

Whitten 3:06

yes , so the men who helped me that that night that I ran to , they did reach out to me immediately after and this is a hard question to answer in some ways , because the only way I had to know if they reach out to me was facebook , because I'd lost my phone number , I'd lost my email accounts , I'd lost every other way of contacting people so more people could have reached out to me was Facebook , because I'd lost my phone number , I'd lost my email accounts , I'd lost every other way of contacting people so more people could have reached out to me .

Whitten 3:28

But I did have some groups of friends who did reach out . I had another group of friends who was letting me know about the guard sale and I have kept in touch with some of them . In fact , actually I didn't tell you this , but recently one of the men who I ran to that night had been listening to the podcast and said that he did not like remembering anything about Lizzie , but he and so I still have him in my life in a different way . But yeah , but they did reach out . So other people in Pasture Town definitely wanted to support me and knew what was going on . It was just hard to get ahold of me because I did completely shut myself off and for a while I was not responsive to any of them , because I didn't know .

Whitten 4:05

I didn't know who I could trust Right .

Maggie 4:08

So was it hard to not be able to contact your family and friends and let them know what was going on with you .

Whitten 4:16

Yes , I hope you say yes . I mean it was very hard not to be able to talk to people and it was isolating . There was a part of me that knew that what I had done would upset people . I knew that everyone would be disappointed and I thought that they were , in a controlling way , doing that because that's what Lizzie was telling me they were doing . But it didn't make these relationships less important . Essentially lying to them , because I wasn't I mean by omission , I wasn't telling them that I was married . Of course they knew that . I moved .

Whitten 4:48

I felt lonely and I felt like I as , day after day , as things were getting worse and worse , I just felt like there was this weight on top of me and some days it was suffocating . I just wanted to be able to talk to my friends and family and when I finally broke down to you , I think it just all came out quickly in word vomit . Yes , I just needed to say it so badly because I felt like I was no longer myself , and of course I wasn't . But no , it was hard . Every day was hard . It was hard not to . There's so many things , like with my sister that I would say , cause I saw something it would remind me of her . I normally would have said something , but I knew I was being censored . Or if I thought of something , I saw one of our favorite drag queens doing something and I wanted to tell you I couldn't because it was being censored .

Maggie 5:45

So it's just the little random parts that create a friendship and create a familial dynamic , that were just gone and contributed to that lost isolation that I felt every day . So when you had to rebuild from scratch , what items did you miss ?

Whitten 5:53

the most Well . I know a couple of these . So Maggie knows that my pictures of my ornaments were the biggest things that I was fighting for , because I knew Lizzie had those . I knew that she had my phone and she had access to them and she had the ornaments and she had no purpose to keep those because they everything is cheaper . Once you open it it loses all value . Once it's opened it's no longer .

Maggie 6:12

She kept those just to be hurtful , because anybody who knows you knows that you love those ornaments .

Whitten 6:18

Oh , definitely yes , but also just restarting from scratch and thinking about that Restarting without anything , Anything . I had the clothes on my back and I had Finn and my work computer and there were certain things that you just don't realize , that you just love . And God , I missed my sports bras . When I ran away I had on one of my bras and it had a like I had the underwire of it during the fight had gotten like broken out of it . It was poking into me . I was having and I only had that bra for a while and good shoes were really things I really wanted . I remember you gave me a pair of sneakers

Listener Questions Breakdown

Whitten 7:00

to wear and I had big and your feet are slightly bigger than

Whitten 7:04

mine . I have a coworker from my previous job that I had big and your feet are slightly bigger than mine . I have a co-worker from my previous job that I had when I was there and I mean she went out and I know she went to Target and said everything was so on sale . But I just know she went and bought me things because she knew I had nothing . Yeah , but I think it would was those comfort items that you really want to have , that you just wear things that you take for granted .

Whitten 7:23

Yes , yeah , that you wear and just love , and really , other than that , I think that my pillow because you just grow accustomed to your pillow and certain items I really missed , but overall it was the pictures and the ornaments that I was very upset about and , just like your history , things that you collected . I was a huge collector of Fiesta wear . Now I don't want to collect it because I felt like I already built up that collection . It was mine , so I started over with mud pie , but it was what I wanted to have , and certain just silly things , like I loved collecting turquoise kitchenware and all of that was gone . So just those . Was there anything else I would complain about ?

Maggie 8:01

I mean to me the . You know , the first thing I always think of is the ornaments and the pictures , like you said , because I mean those pictures are irreplaceable . Yes , the ornaments yes you could . The fiesta yes , you could . The turquoise items yes , you could . But also I think that , at least if I were you , I would think that rebuilding a fiesta wear collection or some of those other items would be triggering .

Maggie 8:24

Oh , I't want to just think about those times and the fact that you used to have all of this . Now you don't have it anymore . Um , but I mean , the pictures are always just the big thing .

Whitten 8:34

But and life update here I was actually able to work with apple and get re-access to my apple id and I have the pictures . So I have that whole part of my life . So karma is existing and helping me in some sense . So I I cried and I just looked at all my pictures alone .

Whitten 8:51

Maggie was like you need to stop sending me oh my god , I was getting inundated with so many photos she was like I don't need a picture of myself eating a hot dog or whatever it was , at a music festival it was corn on the cob .

Maggie 9:03

Oh okay , yes , yes , we were . Yes , we were at Fort .

Whitten 9:04

Castle . But it was just because I had grown so accustomed to Maggie having to say if I wanted to remember something , Maggie would send me the photo . Yeah , but then I got to see the whole other side of the stories of what I took .

Maggie 9:15

I know , I'm so happy .

Whitten 9:17

I am so happy . Thank you , apple . It was just incredible certain moments I worked with students , of the students saying things to me to special , special memories , so to get those back was incredible . Apple and Google and Sally's husband , who helped me work to reclaim that because when I had to lose my email he helped me really was a big day , apple . It took forever , but I'm really and I knew exactly the minute that it would happen , because Apple makes you wait two weeks and there's a minute and I I was like Maggie , I'm just going to add this minute . And then I bet you got . You got texts of photos , like two minutes later . Oh yeah , sally did too . So , oh yeah , very grateful to have those back . It's not everything , it's not my devices , but it is magic .

Maggie 9:57

It's magic . This is a big question , and thank you for whoever submitted this , because I feel very strongly about this one myself . How have you come to terms with your ex not having to ever be held accountable for her actions in a legal sense ?

Whitten 10:15

Now I'm going to have a different reaction to this than Maggie , than my family , than so many other people , and I recognize that , and I recognize that something heinous has occurred . This process was so heavy for me , this process took every inch out of me , and people say things to you like you're so strong for doing that . But it's not strength , it's necessity . You're just living and your living involves having to combat this horrific thing that's occurred . And so every day going through , just putting up with getting the divorce and going through court was already so awful , and to know that going forward and putting charges would have been another she said , she said situation and I would have gone through another monstrous amount of legal fees and I would have had to have seen Lizzie , and I don't even know what the results would have been . Just seemed like that wasn't going to give me the peace that I wanted . But I know that you feel differently about this .

Maggie 11:13

Well , I mean , I'm not a monster and I certainly would not ever want you to have to .

Maggie 11:22

When you put it in those terms , I can understand your reasoning for not wanting to do it and and now , being a few years removed , I can understand it even more . But being in the moment with you , right after you got back , going through your financials with you , really like learning everything that happened . I mean mean it , just it just it makes me crazy that she is just out there living her best life and that this is likely not the first time she has done this . I mean , as we went through the stories with her exes , I'm sure that she gained financially from all of them in some way , and I know you believe in karma and you believe in energy and you think that she's gonna . You , you hope that she gets her comeuppance in the end , but , like jesus , she has . She's really done a good job of getting away with it for for a long time and I just you're not wrong I , I sure , I sure should hope that karma comes and just rips her a new one .

Whitten 12:25

And I understand that and my parents feel that way . I completely understand that Everyone wants something , some sort of repercussion .

Maggie 12:32

Right , I mean , I definitely don't want you to ever have to go through it anymore .

Whitten 12:34

No , and I get that , but like , and I also kind of feel a duty of knowing that she's done this to other people I don't want again , sure , and there is that , that sense of duty , but I didn't have the proper evidence to do anything other than get myself financially and it wasn't gonna ever put her anywhere because so much was , she said . She said so right , because there's no recordings . There's no .

Maggie 12:55

I know I mean there are some recordings that I found on my new phone , getting my phone back , which is cool , but nothing that's gonna but even I mean we've talked about this before it's even if she was held accountable in some way , she didn't have any money that she was going to be able to right of you and garnishing wages . I don't know that she was really ever working documenting her wages , yeah , so you know it would have put you through a whole lot of stress and I know .

Whitten 13:18

But I recognize it because what you're feeling is what probably everyone else is feeling . That's why someone asked this question . Sure , I mean , this question is not I get it . I'm not asked because I , because , like , why ? Why the fuck didn't you win ? And I , I recognize that because I asked myself that on the reg , sure , but I didn't . As , uh , with a lot of therapy and a lot of support , I didn't do this to protect my own mental health , because the growth and what I needed to reach I had already gone through such an immense amount of legal-ies-ness that was so much more than I ever wanted in my life . I mean , it was my largest fear and every time I see any sort of legal person I think I'm guilty . So it's not like I would have had any sort of pride moment in there or felt good , no , any sort of pride moment in there or felt good .

Maggie 14:06

No , and I do know the financial burden , that what you already went through and not just what she took from you , but the legal the fines of my lawyers and everything .

Whitten 14:12

Yeah , and that was such a strain on my parents because I came back Right With nothing , nothing , and my parents helped me and I'm so lucky to have had that and I was able to go back to work and start building up . But I , my parents , had to help me and I would not have been able to do that alone , right . So it is like another thing . But my parents would have paid for those charges , but I just to have taken on that emotional tax , the mental burden , I don't know where I would be mentally so it's a hard question .

Maggie 14:43

It is a hard question , good question , because I've often brought that up to it so good question .

Whitten 14:50

Thank you for that . So that concludes section one , the aftermath of questions More to come More to come . This next grouping of questions , which will all be Maggie asking me again , is about processing fears and lessons learned from my experience with Lizzie in Pasture Town .

Maggie 15:08

Are you still afraid of Lizzie ?

Whitten 15:11

Oh , 100 fucking percent . I'm still afraid of Lizzie . Lizzie still holds an ultimate power over me . I still have nightmares , I still have daily fears . So , yes , I am still afraid of Lizzie . Yes , on the regular . I work on that in therapy . I try to process that . But I will always say this because people have always said those are irrational fears . But this fear is rational because I have been attacked by her . So , yes , I'm afraid of Lizzie and it is rational and I cannot convince my brain otherwise .

Maggie 15:39

I can attest to that , and I yes .

Whitten 15:42

Actually , Maggie , let me pivot . Maggie , are you afraid of lizzie ?

Maggie 15:46

huh , yeah , I am why ? Because she's fucking crazy . I haven't seen it firsthand , but I've seen what she has done , what she can do , and I think that when all of this first kind of got started , I didn't really have much thoughts on her one way or another . But but as we have gotten deeper into this , you know there'll be times when , like you and I , would try to go out or I'd try to encourage you to go out and be like let's go to a drag show . We haven't been in a long time and you'd be so scared to maybe see her out somewhere , and I think that I didn't understand that fear until the first time it happened , and now it only happened a couple times .

Whitten 16:27

Okay , I'm going to say Maggie changed , though I wouldn't even say it was the first time it happened . You changed your perspective on all this when I got arrested .

Maggie 16:35

Well , that's true .

Whitten 16:37

I remember Maggie saying to me I completely understand why you're afraid of her . Yeah , I completely understand . Like you were much more more . Yes , we can avoid her . Yes , because everything I would say always sounded so grandiose to you , like it couldn't happen , right . And then that happened and I remember you looking at me saying I understand , yeah . So I wonder if even before that , you weren't afraid of her , you were just pissed at her and then after that you're actually afraid of her . That's yeah . I don't know if that's the exact time , but that's when you said to me I understand the car ride back the car , ride back the car ride back from hell .

Maggie 17:07

Yeah , no , you're right . One of the next questions is did you ever see Lizzie again ? We did .

Whitten 17:14

So yes , we did , and Maggie happened to be with me the two times , yeah , the two times , when I was in the same space as Lizzie .

Maggie 17:26

So times , yeah , the two times when I was in the same space as lizzie , so it was the first time at the store .

Whitten 17:29

no , the first time was at the play . Yeah , yeah , the play . Well , it was actually a play , though at play . Well , that's true , yes , yes , play is a fantastic drag dance bar in louisville , oh my goodness , there's room to drink , there's room to dance , there's room to hang out and chat . Just , I mean advertisement for play free . We are not sponsored . Go to play , have fun . I mean bachelorette party , divorce party , whatever you're celebrating A Tuesday , just go Go to play . Go to play , support the queens , tip your queens . But yes , we were going to an event there and I remembered that I was afraid she would be there . Yeah , afraid she would be there . Yeah , and , oh my word , did maggie see her ? I didn't even see her . And you , you ?

Maggie 18:08

I don't know , took my arms .

Whitten 18:11

You grabbed my arms and it was like I would spend the whole car ride being like okay , so , maggie , what's the plan ? If we see her here , what are we gonna do ? What's the plan ? And maggie kicked into gear . This is not like when the arrest , when she panicked , she did not panic fight or flight mode and I don't even .

Maggie 18:25

I don't even know who I turned into , but I turned into like the finisher or something . Yes , I saw her across the room . I was facing you .

Whitten 18:34

We were already .

Maggie 18:35

Yes , we were already in there and we already had a booth . We were with some friends , and so I saw Lizzie and John across the room and , like I just looked at Witten , I said we're leaving . Like look at me .

Whitten 18:52

Yeah , she like grabbed my arms to keep me from turning to look , yeah , and was basically like we're leaving , and she pulled me through closed rooms I mean you and she told , like I didn't have to do anything , oh , we got the fuck out of there . We got the fuck out of there . We got the fuck out of there . And we hadn't even driven one of our friends had , because we were planning to imbibe , yeah , and we just went somewhere else for a while because they stayed for the show we did , but Maggie stayed with me .

Whitten 19:14

Thank you , oh yeah , well , I mean .

Whitten 19:30

You were like I don't want to , and I think that that's also right and I think that that was like the first time , like I guess I said that after the arrest but but then , being in that situation , I was like , oh god damn , I like you are scared , I am scared of her . Yeah , I think too , because our other friends might not understand either , and you did , I swear . The arrest situation put you through it in a little bit , because you actually saw that her words her , her , like wordsmithing could create . Oh my gosh . Now I really want to reference Hamilton . What does she say in Burn , Like you wrote palaces you wrote paragraphs .

Maggie 19:54

Yeah , something like you made palaces out of your paragraphs .

Whitten 19:56

Something like that . And I feel like that's what Lizzie does . She just creates this world and everyone lives in it Like where she's the champion and she's like saving the world . And you realize that people believe that world and , oh my gosh , maggie saved me there and then we saw her again we did , doing some of our shopping . Another advertisement without being sponsored Go to Work the .

Maggie 20:15

Metal Work . The Metal is the best little place , oh my gosh , in Louisville , to find a gift , to find something for yourself , to get a $2 , oh , I think they're three now .

Whitten 20:25

Oh , $3 .

Maggie 20:25

$3 mimosa and they sometimes have like little apple cider ones .

Whitten 20:29

It's true , it's just the cutest place and so we were doing some sales . Was it around Christmas ? It was after Christmas sale , but we went later because you go home for family .

Maggie 20:37

So it was probably like the 28th . This building , this store , is broken . It , this store is broken . It's like an old factory , probably , yeah , and it's broken into different rooms and we were like tucked in to a room that does not have a normal exit or Anything , really anything .

Whitten 20:54

Oh , and I said to Maggie because I saw , I saw John , john was there and John and I made eye contact and Lizzie was behind John , that's right . And I looked at Maggie and I said , oh my god , and maggie thought I was talking about a fucking sale or something they have the best style , but then she quickly noticed .

Maggie 21:11

I did and I had a basket , or you were carrying the basket and well , never let me carry the basket , and that's where I break everything that's true . It's a tight , it's a tight store .

Whitten 21:19

We set the basket oh , maggie , maggie became another finisher . Again it again .

Maggie 21:23

And I just grabbed your arm and turned and went into a dark room , a room you're not supposed to go in and there was a door in there and I unlocked it . It was a door that went to the outside and it was locked and I unlocked it and we left and Wynton was like what if we weren't supposed to go out ? What if an alarm ? And I was like I don't give a fuck if an alarm . Oh my gosh , we were shaking .

Whitten 21:49

I mean , I don't even know what we did after that . Maybe we went to my favorite drink at my gin bar ? Yes , maybe , I think there's the hottest bartender .

Maggie 21:52

This one time I went to this one bar one time and I still make us go back just in case she'll still maybe come back .

Whitten 22:00

So yes , we did see lizzie again . I did sometimes see her driving In her car . I knew exactly what her car was and so I was on hyper alert and it was a distinctive car . So other than that , but yes , I did see Lizzie again . Yes , witten , are you still afraid of the po-po ? And Maggie did not write that question , that was a listener . Thank you for using the word po-po For sure . G . Using the word po-po For sure Gave us a little bit of fun . I feel like that's a throwback . I don't even know if people still say that .

Whitten 22:24

Yes , entirely afraid of the police .

Whitten 22:26

I am so afraid of the police and Maggie will attest to this when we are somewhere and there is a police officer , I instantly want to run away .

Whitten 22:35

I think I'm about to be arrested , I think I've done everything wrong , police , and that I am still trying to work on in therapy . In fact , one of my therapists wants me to try exposure therapy and it's like go out to an event where you could go talk to the police or your friends work in events like Maggie does . Why don't you go talk to like security at that and not feel scared because your friends would make sure it's fine and I'm like , uh no , because they could arrest me for something I didn't do , because the one time I called the police for help and then they arrested me for something I didn't do . So , yes , I'm still afraid of the police , given I understand that you are sacrificing your life and there's pros to the police and I'm sure there's a great policeman . Having said that , I'm still afraid of you . I am thankful that you're protecting people , but please don't continue to torture people , like if you weren't torturing people , it'd probably be better for me .

Maggie 23:21

I'm sorry my political views are coming out and uh , that's how it feels about to pop out . Okay , let's go into the next question . Thank you if you , oh , if you . This is interesting . If you could say one thing to lizzie , what would it be ? You , you*** , you , you , f***ing c*** . Sorry , not to me , this is to it , sorry . If you could say one thing to Lizzie , what would it be ? That's hard yeah .

Whitten 23:51

I want to say two powerful quotes in my life . The first one is you don't own me from the song . Another one is I think about this a lot when I think of Lizzie . I loved the movie the Labyrinth , david Bowie movie the Labyrinth , david Bowie you have no power over me . Those are things I really wish I could say to Lizzie , because she had all the power over me and she controlled me . I don't necessarily want to see Lizzie here to say those things .

Whitten 24:13

But if I did see her , I remember that girl at the end of the Labyrinth screaming to David Bowie's character you have no power over me . And I think of that moment sometimes and I've even rewatched Labyrinth since this because I'm like I love that moment , because I just want to scream that , yeah , because that's how I feel . So , yes , it's not a thing I like to think about , but the listener who asked this I did have a very thought through answer , because that's something I think about sometimes is you have no power over me . That's just what I feel .

Maggie 24:37

That's good . If you could go back , would you want a redo or are you happy with the lessons learned and where you are now ?

Whitten 24:44

Yeah , I'd still want to redo . Yeah , I'd want to redo . I know that a lot of people say that People think like that . My mom always said my mom had cancer and my mom is a wonderful survivor . She's incredible . I love you , mom , oh for sure . But there was . My mom got a lot of treatment out at Stanford and there was this artwork that said like if everyone put all their troubles in a box in the middle of the room and you had to pick up a box , you'd rather pick up your own box because you don't want everyone else's troubles . But I just wish I didn't have to do what I just I lived when my life was when I left . If I could pick that up , I'd still have the same friendships , I'd still have the same relationships , my career would still be in the same place , I'd still have my family . None of that would be gone . Right , I mean , you and I probably got even closer , although we were miraculously close before this .

Maggie 25:35

But I will say I would take a redo If I could butterfly effect this and redo it and take a different path , or we're talking about like other dimensions and there's other worlds . Yes . I would like the world where I never fed the hungry with lizzie .

Whitten 25:48

Yeah , still fed the hungry , but not with lizzie no , no , good lessons were learned here . No , not trust but it's a good question because some people actually like where they like , think they're stronger because of something like . I understand the question because my mom always says , like you'd pick up your own box of troubles . And Mom , I just don't know if I'd want this one . Mom , I don't know , like I just ugh .

Maggie 26:09

Did Lizzie tell any of these lies to other people , or just to you ? Well , I guess it depends on the lie Right ? There's a lot of lies . I know we did a whole episode on it .

Whitten 26:20

That's not even all of them Right episode on it . That's not even all of them right , but some of the stuff and I think we referenced it , like about amazing race and stuff . I think she was saying that out publicly to people around us . But the one about her blood curing aids , I was under the impression not a lot of people knew that because it was a secret . But I'm guessing that she created a story of her life and other people heard these lies I think she's been living in this .

Maggie 26:44

Yeah , I don't know , I mean , there might've been some things that were specifically for you , some special special lies , but yeah , I'm sure that she's . I mean , she's lived a lot of different places and it seems like she's had a lot of different kind of different lives . So I'm sure that she has kind of created a new persona everywhere she's gone , I think , and like come up with these stories to tell people when she meets them . And yeah , yeah , question six . Okay , another question . You sometimes reference this as a con . What made it a con ?

Whitten 27:19

Maybe I don't know the full , proper definition of a con , but in my opinion a con is where someone had bad intentions at the beginning of something and told you a story to make something come true and Lizzie clearly was not in love with me but wanted the benefits of being married to me and continuously would do things . Where she would want my pay stubs , where she would check who I was talking to , where she intentionally isolated me , and I don't know if that's cult-like behavior or con-like behavior or if that's just dictator behavior or narcissist behavior , psychopath behavior , All of the above . But whatever it was , when we say con in the episode we're referring

Trigger Warning & Content Advisory

Whitten 28:00

to that that there was a plan .

Maggie 28:03

Yes .

Whitten 28:04

Definitely a plan Day to day . She would continuously .

Maggie 28:07

She targeted you .

Whitten 28:08

Yes , Continuously ask for more tools to succeed . Do you like anything else to like ? Because you believe , like you , go with me and say it's a con .

Maggie 28:17

Oh , absolutely , because I definitely think that she , like I just said she targeted you and then like with all the grooming and everything like that , she just , I mean you were just playing into her plan , playing into her plan . I don't know , I don't want to play into her plan .

Whitten 28:40

Maggie , sorry but you did , I did , okay , yeah , because you're . You sometimes can be easily manipulated and I especially . She found me and picked me for that reason , right , I'm sure yeah , and she said all the right things , and so if there's like a definition of a con we're missing . Like no , like this is not like a bitcoin scam , that's like a con . Or like it's not a ponzi scheme , like so I don't know , maybe I'm not using con right , but that's what we mean when we said con .

Maggie 29:00

Yes , yeah , yeah , and our last question of this section do you think that lizzie oh fuck , clearly I'm just reading for the first time do you think that lizzie has heard this podcast ? Are you afraid of her reaction ? I'll jump in . I hope she hasn't , and yes , I am . I agree , I hope she has not heard this podcast . Are you afraid of her reaction ? I'll jump in . I hope she hasn't , and yes , I am .

Whitten 29:19

I agree I hope she has not heard this podcast . My reason for wanting to do this podcast was A to actually finally tell my story . It became so hard because it would be something that was taboo and , maggie , we didn't want to talk about it because it was a part of our friendship that was strained . It was a part of my life that I was ashamed of . But it was also something that I needed to process beyond just therapy , because it was just going to ignore 18 months to two years of my life . That really shaped my mindset . But I also wanted to do this podcast for people to have something to relate to , to understand that when you go through trauma , it's a different interpretation of it . This wasn't the way I saw trauma . Like I didn't recognize that I was being groomed , I didn't recognize that I was going through this . And I want to give those people a space to say oh wait , maybe this is bad , but yeah , I fucking hope she hasn't heard it . And if she has , I'm afraid . I'm afraid of retaliation because she's Crazy , retaliation because she's crazy , crazy . So , yeah , that was this segment of questions . The next one . I get to ask maggie a few , so that's fun , but , oh boy , I hope you enjoyed fear and retaliation . Let's refill our vodka .

Whitten 30:27

This next group of questions is gonna have ones where I get to ask maggie questions too . So thank you listeners who gave us questions for maggie , because I know she specifically said don't send me questions , but what I really wanted more than anything was for Maggie to have to answer questions , so thank you for that . Thank you . This section is themed around the role of the support system in this sort of situation . So , maggie , the first question's for you . Okay , and it's a heavy one , so get prepared . Maggie , what advice would you give someone who is watching their friend go through an abusive relationship ? What do you tell the friend ?

Maggie 31:00

so I read this right before it hit record and I was like , oh damn , that is um , that's a , that's a hard question and the listener's probably asking a couple questions , yeah yeah , my advice to somebody who's watching your friend go through this would be to be open and available to that friend as much as you possibly can and make them aware of that . It's a very fine line of trying to make that friend see what you can see that maybe they're not seeing and pushing them away . So you want to make sure that you are staying open and available to them without pushing them away . So you want to make sure that you are staying open and available to them without pushing them away .

Maggie 31:40

I feel like I'm going to get emotional because I'm just thinking about times that I would try to reach out to Witten and like it would be a while before you would text me back . Or it's okay , it's okay and it's like I knew what was happening and her sister and I would have conversations about what was happening . You always want your friend to know that you're available for them and that's going to be hard as hell if you know what they're going through and they're not seeing it . You have to be really careful about not pushing them away by telling them what you see , because then I would have just cut you off .

Whitten 32:12

Yeah , I'm afraid I would have , and I came to you . We know I called you and I did come to you . So Maggie did this really well .

Maggie 32:19

Well , I just started kind of . I started kind of tiptoeing back a little bit , I think it's . It's it really started when you came to my apartment that night and you told me that you'd bought , you'd bought a house and it was in North Carolina . I knew I , I mean I was seeing it happening in Louisville , I was just watching it happen and I was still trying to hang out and be available and everything . And then that night you came to my house and you were you had been talking about buying a house and you're like I bought a house and I was like , holy shit , that's amazing . I mean , I can't believe I didn't get to go look at it with you . I probably didn't say that , but that's what I fucking thought , yeah .

Whitten 32:52

Cause I would have taken now . I'd be like why , yeah , because I would have taken it Now . I'd be like why aren't you coming with me to the first visit ?

Maggie 32:56

And then you were just like a very quiet aside and you're like , and it's in North Carolina , and I was just like , did I really what , oh God . And I got emotional that night because it was just so shocking . But again , I didn't want to have an over-the-top reaction like I wanted to , because I didn't want that to drive you away and just run into Lizzie's arms and say you know , maggie's not being supportive of me , and you wouldn't have said that , but Lizzie would have spun it that way , yeah , and she probably still did somehow , because I knew what you were dealing with on the other side . I just didn't want to do anything that would push you away .

Maggie 33:31

This little fine , this little teeny little thread of a relationship that we were still able to hold on to , yeah , that she was like still letting you text me every now and then , I guess , because you did every now and then , but you probably just deleted it . I just didn't want to break that little , teeny , teeny , tiny thread .

Whitten 33:47

So to the listener so a long way , no , for certain , Like I love that you're giving it context .

Maggie 33:51

Yeah , but like you know , a long answer to the question is I would just make yourself available to your friend and let them know that all the time , Constantly . Let them know that you're available to them if they ever need anything . Would you even ?

Whitten 34:05

let them know you were concerned .

Maggie 34:06

Yes , but I would you know you'd have to feel out that situation that you're in with your friend .

Whitten 34:13

I see that's such a hard line . It's a very hard line , because I've also known other people .

Maggie 34:19

I know other friends that have dealt with , other friends that have been in these kinds of situations where they push too hard and they've driven friends away back to the abuser yes , it's tough and it's very much dependent upon and that's a like to ask that question .

Whitten 34:35

That's a shitty situation to be in I can't imagine . I hope this is maggie I , I didn't go through what you went through , uh our next question is will maggie now vet everyone you date ?

Maggie 34:45

absolutely first of all , that question is to me that question was asking to me .

Whitten 34:51

I'm still gonna jump in there . So I mean , I have not been able to start dating yet .

Maggie 34:57

I know I'm afraid to date if there's any cute lesbians in the little area hi , but I'm not .

Whitten 35:05

Well , I am , but I'm not . I just I feel like I have this like heavy ass baggage and I'm so scared . I'm so scared of bringing that into something and creating that I am so afraid to trust . But yeah , I'm sure that this bitch will vet it whenever I date someone .

Maggie 35:18

Yeah , yeah , yeah , like probably uncomfortably so I might drive people away . I'm gonna be like your dad , like in the corner .

Whitten 35:28

Uh , you know , like if you're going no , you're not like on a high school date I'm gonna be sitting in the corner at a table by myself like staring .

Maggie 35:35

She won't do that .

Whitten 35:36

She , she will not do that . But I mean , well , maggie , bet everyone I did . I'm so afraid to date that I'm like looking into going to networking groups and I'm asking Maggie like hey , will you come with me ? Just so the first time I'm not like alone , so I'm scared , but I do think that I fall fast .

Whitten 35:53

Yes , there's a stereotype for us lesbians . But I fall fast . We've seen it happen . I got married like really fast and I think Maggie will be much more vocal because we've lived this together , so the advice she just gave will be different , because she'll be like snap out of it bitch .

Maggie 36:14

Yeah , Witten did , her son who left and said he didn't know what his mom was going to do did he ever reach out to you like have you heard anything from him ?

Whitten 36:22

no , I hope he's okay . Yeah , I unfortunately know that he's been drugged back into the web of this in a lot of ways I hope he was living with the grandparents , right ?

Maggie 36:32

he ?

Whitten 36:33

was , but I know that he because his brother went through surgery , I know he got drugged back into the web of all this . So if you ever need anything and you do happen to listen to this , I think you're awesome . I'm so proud of what you did . I'm so sorry in the moment I believed your mom . I'm so sorry in the moment I didn't hear what you said because I was going through mental grooming , but that was really kick-ass that you were able to leave . That must have been so hard . I wish that I could talk to you and help you , but no , he did not reach out and I'm afraid it's because of abuse . This next question is for Maggie . So since Maggie knew Lizzie and I just love how all you all I guess I don't type it a lot in the stuff Everyone spells Lizzie differently and so it's like bleeding into the . Do you notice like some are Y , some are IE and it's just like I guess the listener spells it differently . But okay , since Maggie knew Lizzie before Witten started spending time with her , all happened .

Maggie 37:39

To be perfectly honest , I please be honest . I thought she was a bitch . Um , really , the way yes , the way everyone thinks she's a saint not everyone , okay . No , because when I knew lizzie beforehand like before I ever talked to lizzie oh yeah yeah , I met her while we were doing a show together and I mean , I truly straight up thought she was a bitch she . She was kind of like a mean girl with this one other person in the cast of this show that we were doing , where she was a dancer she's still laughing .

Whitten 38:03

I mean , sometimes maggie gets far enough away from the microphone , says her editor , get closer to the microphone , but she just keeps laughing about this dancing . So so I'm guessing , like I thought lizzie could dance . No , no well , maggie , I know that , you know that I can waltz Okay .

Maggie 38:22

Okay , but yes , when I originally met Lizzie , it was because we were in a show together and she was not a nice person .

Whitten 38:28

So she was a mean girl , yeah , interesting . Whenever she'd talk about doing theater , she always talked about how everyone loved her . No , okay , not in that show .

Maggie 38:37

And I remember another show I was going to be choreographing after that and her name came up to be Like a feature dancer . The director and I were talking Not a feature dancer , but the director and I were talking about . You know he was essentially like you can cast who particularly want to work with her . She's just kind of a bitch . The last time I worked with her he's like oh , she is a bitch .

Whitten 39:02

I was like okay , great , we both think that's so interesting because I thought everyone loved her .

Maggie 39:07

No , I was , must have been so and then seeing her socially , like the few times I did , was she always with john ? I always thought she was always with John . No , no , I I never . I had never met John .

Whitten 39:20

Oh , okay .

Maggie 39:22

The few times that I did see her in like a social kind of setting , I always felt like she had a fucking angle and I know that . Like saying that now it seems like I'm just saying that because of all of this , but I truly thought that she would like try to come on to me or try to like come on to other girls in the room and I'm like I could see that , yeah , and she just always kind of felt kind of slimy . Oh , I don't know .

Whitten 39:48

Well , now we know .

Maggie 39:49

Bitchy and slimy .

Whitten 39:50

Bitchy and slimy .

Maggie 39:51

Mm-hmm . The next question when you talked to Maggie from Pasture Town before she knew what happened , what did you talk about ? Not much .

Whitten 40:01

Okay , I remember talking to you .

Maggie 40:04

Like once , probably no I remember it twice .

Whitten 40:06

Specifically , there were two times the second time was Jacqueline no no , before that .

Whitten 40:10

Okay , there were two times before that I do not remember . I remember it vividly because you told me you got a new job one of the times , which was very exciting but also but I remember because I would have to hide and go in different places in the house . So I remember that one time I was like hiding in my like closet little area and another time I was pacing around the pool . But I remember these vividly and so , like I know it was two separate times but they weren't long , I'm sure not . It's so hard because I could feel I don't want to cry .

Maggie 40:38

I understand , I could feel when you go back to that moment . It's yeah .

Whitten 40:42

I could feel how hard you were trying . I could feel how much you wanted to actually talk to me and I could tell that I was not talking to you . I knew that I was just reporting to you , like , and I was just reporting what I was supposed to say . I knew it Like I knew it . There's like my brain knew it , yeah . But the groomed version of me was like this is what you're doing , this is what you're supposed to say to her , and I could hear it Like I could hear it happening , because you would be telling me these cool life updates and I would be telling you about my job , which was always doing fine . I would hardly even talk about my day-to-day life and if I did , it was just praising lizzie , I'm sure . So I know that's hard . The final question of this segment the role of support systems . Maggie , if you saw lizzie now , what would you say to her ?

Whitten 41:27

if I didn't run away yeah , if you didn't run away , I guess if you were in a room , but it was like you have to say one thing to her . She's tied up and she can't say anything back . How could ?

Maggie 41:40

you .

Whitten 41:42

How could she ? And that's a good one .

Maggie 41:43

I don't know . I mean just , I don't think there's anything that I could say to her , that anybody could say to her , to get like any kind of honest answer out of her .

Whitten 41:53

Unfortunately , and what Maggie would answer out of her .

Maggie 41:58

Unfortunately , and what maggie would love to say to her and have it be true is you're under arrest , sure , fuck you . This police officer's getting ready to take you to like the federal pen for the rest of your life and you're gonna pay .

Whitten 42:08

Went back all the money you stole from her , you know I love that someone like , because this was asked of me , but specifically of Maggie too , this question .

Maggie 42:16

So I have honestly never thought about that before this moment . What I would say to her .

Whitten 42:22

Because it's so sweet , because Maggie always thinks about just protecting me , not about what she's going to say to Lizzie .

Maggie 42:27

No , I've thought about what she might say to me . What would she say to you ? I don't know .

Whitten 42:37

I just always feel like she would be . I seen her . I saw her at work that one time . Oh , I remember that that you said you saw , you also saw her at the head wig , that's right .

Maggie 42:42

Yeah , I've seen her two additional times . I don't know . I just feel like she would be like she would just lay it on so thick and just like come up like hey , how's the whitton doing ? I just feel like she would do some , something like that .

Whitten 42:58

Oh my God , I can actually hear her voice saying that right now . Oh my gosh . I can see her saying it Like hey , maggie .

Maggie 43:04

Oh God , I don't know . I've thought about that , and then I'd punch her in the face .

Whitten 43:09

Maggie would not punch her in the face .

Maggie 43:11

I might kick her in the cunt and punch her in the face . Okay , okay .

Whitten 43:16

Well , I hope you enjoyed segment three of questions . We are going to go to the next segment now . This next grouping of questions is about moving on in life . So AI has graciously called this surviving and thriving .

Maggie 43:31

How have you managed the mental pain of surviving this Therapy ?

Whitten 43:36

Drugs , the mental pain of surviving this Therapy , drugs , intensive self-reflection , a lot of talk , a lot of hell , a lot of bad vices , like the vodka that's in the room . I've managed this through , I would say , my support system . Have have I managed this ? I'm so lucky to have a support system , who still loved me when I went through this and I know it's not my fault , but it feels like a choice that I made . So I'm so lucky to have had the support system . So , maggie , you're one of the reasons I've survived , and my parents , you're one of the reasons my sister you're one of the reasons .

Whitten 44:18

My friends Sally , all like that's finn god , that man , little gentleman , the only man for me , but the only . That's how I survived . I mean , I was so incredibly trauma bonded and I didn't even know that , what that word meant . I was groomed . I didn't know what that meant . I was so far gone , and a lot of words that you use only talk about people who are victims of cults like are what I had gone through . Yes , so really severe .

Whitten 44:37

I mean , I was going to therapy for an hour a day , three days a week . For a while I was in psychiatry . I was going to new doctors because I had gone off everything . I had to restart over . I was trying to process it . I was trying to do things that were like exposure therapy , of being able to go out to get a drink with Maggie , just to be able to be in public , because everything I would make us do would be in an apartment or in a house , like I wouldn't go anywhere . So , time help . It's not easy and if you're asking this because you're going through something like this , I am so sorry because I don't have a good answer , but it was a multitude of things .

Maggie 45:18

Well , that's a good lead into this next question . What was it like going off your mental health medicine cold turkey , and I did that happen .

Whitten 45:27

It happened in Pasture Town . So when I was in Pasture Town , lizzie said that I didn't need to be on any medicine because it was keeping me from being the real me and I she had me poured all down the sink so I did go off at cold turkey and and you've been on I don't know mental health medication for a while , like we've referenced , I had a suicide attempt .

Whitten 45:42

I've gone through other things so , and I think that made me appealing to lizzie and the fact that I was struggling . Have you ever heard of something called brain zaps ? I feel like I have heard that . Have you told me about that ? Maybe it was me . When you go off mental health medicine or certain medicines , there's something called brain zaps . It literally feels like your brain brain's getting electrocuted and it is crazy . I had brain zaps . I felt ill and queasy and I would go to lizzie and say like these weird things were happening , and she was like that's because the medicine never should have been in you . This is your body cleansing itself of it , and not anything about weaning it off or talking to anybody about it . It was just . This is what needs to happen .

Maggie 46:21

You were not doing therapy anymore once you moved away obviously no , and this was also the pandemic .

Whitten 46:27

So that had decreased , but the medicine hadn't . So therapy , because Skype and everything was still new to people . I mean , I know it was out there , but less people had it . Therapists weren't doing Skype . Did you say Skype ? That's what was happening right after therapy , I mean right in the pandemic . Remember , at first it was Skype , then it was Zoom . Now we're all on Teams Like who knows what we're going to be on next month , but it was everything . But at the beginning it was Skype . I couldn't even do virtual stuff because they have their own programs to do it . Not , it's not like normal zoom , right when I see my therapist virtually . So I , when I went through it it was the medicine was the biggest distance for me because I I didn't have therapy for a while because the pandemic they hadn't figured that out , but I did .

Whitten 47:15

My medicine never went away . So when that went away it was very I mean , I mean I had brain zaps , I had all sorts of stuff . So do not go off mental health medicine without consulting your doctor . Right , it was not good for me . I do not know how it will be for everyone . Every human is unique . I do not recommend it . Do not do it . Talk to a doctor . I'm not one . Thank you for the question . Don't , if you're thinking about doing this , don't go off cold turkey , don't .

Maggie 47:40

Talk to your doctor . So Lizzie controlled everything you did and ate . Did she control what you wore ?

Whitten 47:50

Maggie's going to have opinions on this , because this one time I went to the local . But listen , oh . Yeah , well , you can talk first . Thank you for that privilege . Yes , lizzie liked a certain style and a certain way that things looked . Lizzie thought that buttons and certain things made me look slimmer . Lizzie thought that certain things splattered certain bodies and Lizzie wanted us to match . She said that a thing of buttons , straight down your thing , would make you look thinner and certain clothing styles would make you look thinner , yes , thing would make you look thinner and certain clothing styles would make you look thinner .

Whitten 48:16

Yes , like a button-down shirt , which I don't wear . No , you don't . Because I don't like , because boobs they always look like they're coming off Right Like I don't like boobs with a button-down , because it always looks like it's .

Maggie 48:23

Well , I know , and I mean , as you were talking about sports bras earlier Witten has a chest on her and having a good support system in your brassiere .

Whitten 48:40

It's very important , very important . Yes buttons , no , no , but so I didn't like them . But she wanted me to wear them , so I was wearing them more , all sorts of things , but lizzie did control my wardrobe . Lizzie controlled everything , down to the shampoo . I use the makeup , I use what I what I looked like . So I'm gonna now pass the mic to maggie , which she needs to lean into because she doesn't like to talk into the mic .

Maggie 48:56

Okay , this might've been like the one time that I got to see you during this time when you lived in North Carolina , it is . It was after I had gotten my new job and after I told you what was happening .

Whitten 49:09

You knew that's yes , that's true . Well , I just wanted like that to add into you got your new job , but also Maggie knew that I had married Lizzie .

Maggie 49:15

Yes . So I had no idea that Witten was coming in town and I'm like at this bar with some other friends and all of a sudden this like Human comes and hugs you , human comes and hugs me , and I turn and I look and I was like holy shit , it's Witten .

Maggie 49:30

I was so excited you hugged me back and then I kind of took her in and she did not look like herself . Her hair was the same color as Lizzie's , which is not my natural color , which is not the natural color I don't know . It was kind of a bizarro moment , I mean .

Whitten 49:46

I genuinely think Lizzie wanted me to look like her .

Maggie 49:50

Yes , well , and also that goes back to like the whole identity theft , right , you know , yeah . So to like the whole identity theft , right , you know yeah .

Whitten 49:56

So yeah that was a really so . Lizzie did control every element of me .

Coping with Trauma and Rebuilding Life

Whitten 50:01

It was not just what I ate or what I , not just what I did and what I ate . It was how I appeared .

Maggie 50:06

Yes , very much so as a DV victim . The good memories can be just as hard as the bad ones . How do you manage when one of those memories is triggered can be just as hard as the bad ones ? How do you manage when one of those memories is triggered ?

Whitten 50:19

it's a really hard question , really hard question sometimes I think that the whoever said this must live this . Maybe you're saying as a victim , because you are one , I I think that those memories are the worst . I think they're the most nefarious in a sense , because you remember how wonderful everything was and when I was first coming out of this and I was in therapy , I would have to reconcile the person I fell in love with and that there was this person that I jammed with in the car and sang songs at the top of our lungs and that I cuddled with and that I felt safe with . And this person who made me feel like I was free and liberated was the person who stole my soul . And it's hard .

Whitten 51:15

Time helps a lot because for a while it would be like a certain song or a certain thing would come up and that would be the only thing I would want to talk about .

Whitten 51:22

And Maggie must have heard it . All the time I'd say this is a Lizzie thing or this makes me think of Lizzie , and I'm sure it made you want to like pull your hair out of your head . But for a while it was so hard because I would go into therapy just bawling , because I'd say last night I had a dream and it was about a strange thing , lovely . Like last night , I had a moment that I remembered that she cared , and I know it's wrong and I know that's not what she felt , but to me in that moment it was real . So , and I think I manage it by trying to take it in stride , but I struggle and I still struggle and I still go to therapy . So I manage by processing it and talking through it and reconciling it , by remembering that that was an illusion , but I'm human and I still fall for it sometimes . So I don't have a good answer . I don't , I don't .

Maggie 52:17

And I can attest to hearing your reactions to yes , like a song would come on or a situation would happen and this was like fresh after coming back and she would say nice things about Lizzie . And I think it kind of goes back to the other question about how do you talk to a friend who's going through this kind of stuff . It was very hard for me not to just like shake the shit out of her every time that kind of thing would come up , Because I knew that she was still dealing with so much trauma and this was going to be a fucking marathon . Still is Not a sprint , Still is . You know , I would hear about that kind of stuff all the time that like Lizzie did this or that and she still had a lot of , you know , rose tinted glasses I did .

Whitten 52:56

But it was really hard . I was in love .

Maggie 52:59

I know that's what I'm saying . It's like and that was very hard for me to hear like having you back and I just want to like you know just keep you safe and just like hug .

Whitten 53:17

You say like , because when one of those is triggered , your brain goes back to that memory and it could have been positive . Whoever's asking this and who like that ? It's shit , because it will happen and you'll hate yourself . You'll hate yourself for feeling happy with that memory . You'll be so mad at yourself and then you'll be like why did you fall for that ? How did you feel that it will give you so many feelings because you'll be happy ? You'll be like why did you fall for that ? How did you feel that it will give you so many feelings because you'll be happy ? You'll be like reminiscing , but you'll also be pissed . It's so hard . So I think time and distance is the biggest help , but therapy is also helpful .

Maggie 53:47

Our last question of this section what would you tell the victim going through our legal system right now about how to protect herself , knowing she'll have to see her abuser ?

Whitten 53:58

have your support system with you and do what makes you feel safe . For me , that was getting my tarot cards read . That was getting stones , that was getting getting sage , that was doing all the things , making sure that I was doing whatever was healing to me . If it's weird , it doesn't matter if it feels weird to anyone else . Do what's right for you Right . Make yourself feel safe .

Whitten 54:19

Get the most kick-ass little fucking blouse or whatever you have to wear to see this fucking person who ruined your life , and have your people with you , because you are not alone and you do not have to look at this person . You don't have to even acknowledge this person . Look at your people . That's what I was planning to do . I didn't have to do it . So I'm so sorry that you have to . I hope you don't have to . I hope you can also be in virtual court , but if you have to , I had all my stones and I was very prepared and I had processed it in all of ways . So just my plan was to not look at her and to own my truth , because I deserve to tell my truth , because I deserve to tell my truth and I deserve to be unmuted , and you do too , and your truth is valid .

Maggie 54:58

Snaps to that .

Whitten 54:59

Snaps to that .

Maggie 55:01

For our last little chunk of questions . We are looking forward and channeling energy into creativity .

Whitten 55:08

Thank , you AI for that title . Have you and Maggie thought about doing a podcast about something else ? You both are so funny . You should do rupaul I'm very flattered . We are so funny and like you actually did the o's like little big , little big . We haven't no this one time when we got particularly inebriated . After we after we did a bunch of stuff preparing for this podcast , we just kind of talked about how we met . The footage of that is funny .

Maggie 55:39

We just did one episode of that right just so well .

Whitten 55:41

It wasn't even just like us talking , just talking for probably 30 minutes like I think it's longer and you could hear us pouring more wine into the cups , but I don't think we are cool enough to do rupaul only because there's so many drag chasers out there , well and like also there's so many actual Ru queens that are doing podcasts about Ru , I don't feel like I'd be worthy enough to do a Ru .

Whitten 56:05

No , we are not worthy to talk about Mother . But if we did another podcast , I feel like there's a lot of ones on Drag Race . I don't know .

Maggie 56:13

I don't know , maybe some .

Whitten 56:14

There's also a lot on like ghosts and stuff like that , but we love that I think we like that kind of stuff , yeah , but we always want one about a certain thing , and there's not one of it , that's true , we'll start taking notes . Maybe we'll do another podcast , who knows ?

Maggie 56:25

Stay tuned , stay tuned . Okay , this is for both of us what .

Whitten 56:33

I hope people feel seen . I hope people feel like they're not alone . I hope people who are living in domestic violence feel seen and recognize that it's not so one sided , that it can happen in queer relationships , that it can happen from a woman , that it can happen when you think that everything's perfect , that it can happen from a woman , that it can happen when you think that everything's perfect , that it can happen when you're still rocking your career . I hope that it draws awareness to the prevalence of domestic violence and I hope that it makes people feel aware . I also hope that support systems like the Maggie side of it feel seen .

Maggie 57:15

I mean , I agree with what Witten said . I hope that anybody out there that's listening to this is going through this , you are able to take something away from this and maybe be able to get out or find some sort of avenue or support system to help you get through it . I also hope that the people like me that might be listening to it know that your person knows that you care , yeah , and that they know that you're trying to help , but they might be in a bad situation . But keep , keep , please keep doing what you're doing and please keep being there for your , for your people , yes , so we hope it helps somebody .

Whitten 57:53

Yeah , yeah , we .

Maggie 57:54

Yeah , we hope you've been entertained yeah .

Whitten 57:56

We really ultimately hope it .

Maggie 57:57

Let us entertain you .

Whitten 58:00

Okay , this next question's for Maggie . So in the last episode you referenced that our next season could be a conspiracy theories podcast . Oh God , so what would be episode one ?

Maggie 58:10

Oh God . Episode one of a conspiracy theory podcast . There's so many out there .

Whitten 58:17

Oh , she got an idea .

Maggie 58:18

This just came to me what if we could do like some deep dive into some like drag queen conspiracy ?

Whitten 58:23

shit . Oh my gosh , that could be some fun .

Maggie 58:26

That'd be fun , niche .

Whitten 58:27

Oh , we do some research . Oh , I love research .

Maggie 58:30

I feel like Untucked would be our best friend .

Whitten 58:32

Oh my gosh all on Untucked . Just be our best friend . Oh my gosh all on untucked . Just like what is going on , like what really happened with coco and alissa tune in , like something like that .

Maggie 58:40

Oh yeah , something like that would be , because I know that this came up when I was .

Whitten 58:44

We were talking about how we both believed in ghosts , and then we also believed . I said , maggie , do you think the government's really doing creepy shit to people in basements ? And maggie's like of course , I think the government's doing stuff .

Maggie 58:55

Oh yeah , any , I mean honestly , send me a suggestion , we just do it . It would be all based on your suggestions public because I totally believe in conspiracy theories .

Whitten 59:04

I'm not like a super conspiracy theorist , but yeah , but maggie like secretly wishes she were prepping right now doesn't ?

Maggie 59:11

everybody with the way , the world , with the , the ?

Whitten 59:14

way things are going . Fair , okay , fair , fuck , fair , fair , fair , fair . Y'all better get ready , okay . Next question .

Maggie 59:22

This one is for both of us . Who are your celebrity crushes ? Cute .

Whitten 59:28

Cute , cute , okay , well , oh man , I really fucking love Elizabeth Olsen .

Maggie 59:34

She's you always have . Well , oh man , I really fucking love .

Whitten 59:36

Elizabeth Olsen . She's you always have . Yeah , I do , I love Elizabeth Olsen .

Maggie 59:38

Wandavision , everything , everything , my number one will always be Leonardo DiCaprio .

Whitten 59:45

Okay , but like everyone in , like the Titanic era .

Maggie 59:49

Bitch . I'm not the Titanic era . Wait , growing pains , I'm the Romeo and Juliet era .

Whitten 59:53

Oh , okay . Yeah , okay , maggie and I have a slight age difference , but it's not that big .

Maggie 59:57

She loves me . Definitely , leonardo DiCaprio . Dave Matthews will always have a number one place in my heart as well .

Whitten 1:00:02

Okay , maggie has seen Dave Matthews live a large amount of times A lot .

Maggie 1:00:06

A lot of times , a lot , a lot , a lot , and I can't wait concert dates .

Whitten 1:00:18

Uh , she'll be there I'll be there , don't worry , okay , would you two consider interviewing other survivors as a spinoff , maybe ? Yeah , we'd consider that if we're that fun to talk to , right ? I don't know if you like our perspective , we're happy to talk to anybody , probably if they're a survivor to hear their story . That for sure . No one should be on mute . We thought of a lot of ideas for part two , whatever two , so we also don't even know if we will do a part two . Yeah , there's , the world is our oyster , indeed , indeed .

Maggie 1:00:42

Indeed , okay , I love this next question .

Whitten 1:00:45

Read it the way , like I want it to be read right now in my head . Use one of your voices , please .

Maggie 1:00:50

Which voice Like ? Do you already know ? Like how you want me ?

Whitten 1:00:52

to read it . I'm just going to tell you all Maggie does voices so well . If you ever need someone to like professionally read a children's book aloud , maggie is the person for you . Everyone will have their own little funny voice and it is precious . But no , I just because it has the word totally .

Maggie 1:01:06

Totally , because there's a valley girl . Yeah , that's what I thought too . So this should totally be a lifetime movie . Lizzie seems like real life evil . If you made this movie , who would play each of you and who would play lizzie ? Oh my god , totally , I don't know . Uh , this should absolutely be a lifetime movie . I remember when we were sorry not to jump in , but when we were driving back after we got in her car , I was like this is an episode of Dateline and I made the mistake of like putting on an episode of Dateline .

Maggie 1:01:46

Like right after I was arrested this is a little too heavy for me to listen to right now . And I was like fair , I'm not being very sensitive to you . So now , and I was like fair , I'm not being very sensitive to you .

Whitten 1:01:59

So yeah , this should 100 be a lifetime movie . Hi , lifetime right here , witten . Yes , call me up . No , I'm kidding who would play us . It's funny because , like I , watch a lot of hallmark a lot of hallmark movies yeah , um , what do we do for fun ? Sometimes we play the hallmark christmas movie drinking game . Oh yeah , if it was like hallmark people playing it , you'd have to have lacy play you me .

Maggie 1:02:17

Yes , lacy , could totally be you . It's hard to say who could play lizzie , because I feel like there's nobody that I hate that much that I would like an actor actress to wish that upon them right who would play you ?

Whitten 1:02:31

I don't know . A hallmarky person , who's another one ? I don't know . This is a hard question person .

Maggie 1:02:34

Who's another one ? I don't know . This is a hard question . I did preview this one before we hit record and I was like I don't feel comfortable with saying who I would like to play me in a movie because it makes me feel like vain .

Whitten 1:02:43

Oh , my gosh . No , but who would be fun to play you ? Who's one of your favorite celebs ? Oh my gosh , if Elizabeth Olsen played me , I'd die .

Maggie 1:02:51

I know you would , I would love it .

Whitten 1:02:53

Elizabeth Olsen , please play me in the Lifetime movie . Okay , I love her so much . I feel like when I was younger and I got this question , who played Agatha ? She'd be a good Lizzie Kevin .

Maggie 1:03:05

Hahn , she'd be a good , lizzie , I think she would , she could do anything .

Whitten 1:03:08

Don't you think ?

Maggie 1:03:08

And we love her , I know but like she could definitely be like play manipulative . Yes , I mean that whole series . Who do you want to play you ? I feel like when I got this question when I was younger , I used to say Rebecca Gayheart , which , like most people , probably don't even know who that is . That ages me . But she has this like big brown , curly hair .

Whitten 1:03:27

Oh , okay , I think she was in Urban Legend , did you see ?

Maggie 1:03:31

Urban Legend no , yeah . Throwback , okay , and Jawbreaker , I don't know . Good question , definitely Lifetime movie yes , thank you , stay tuned for that . Thank you In conclusion , hey guys .

Whitten 1:03:53

We really just want to say thank you so much for listening to the podcast Ivy Winters .

Maggie 1:03:57

Ivy Winters , ivy Winters .

Whitten 1:04:01

Thank you for listening to the podcast . This was a bit of a dream and , maggie , thank you for doing the podcast with me .

Maggie 1:04:05

Thank , you for asking me . Thank you for telling your story and sharing it with so many people .

Whitten 1:04:10

Thank you for enduring every text message . When are we going to record ? When are we going to record ? When are we going to record .

Maggie 1:04:15

I'm not sad that that will not be every other text I receive from you anymore , because You'll still get texts .

Whitten 1:04:23

No , but we don't know . We might do something else , we might , we . I mean everybody deserves to be unmuted , and this story has more angles to come from if we want to do that We've it's been fun .

Maggie 1:04:35

I hope it's been therapeutic for you .

Whitten 1:04:38

It has been therapeutic for me , it's been a relief , it's been interesting . It's honestly having listeners , having people reach out . There's been a community , a community of supporters , a community of people have gone through things and feel heard and feel seen by what we're saying . So it's nice to recognize the impact of it and also to recognize that I'm not alone . But also it's sad to know that I'm not alone , and there's so many of us going through this .

Maggie 1:05:03

It's not a right and when we ? I feel like when we started this , it was more like who knows if anybody's going to listen to this . Really , it's an audio version of a diary for you , you know yeah you telling this story and now all these people are listening to us .

Whitten 1:05:21

Thank you for listening to us , yeah to this story , and in different countries and such . That's really cool , so thank you . But it's funny too if you listen to the episodes . At the beginning I mean maggie and I are just talking , yeah , and then it starts to be like , oh , no , wait , people are on the other side of this microphone and I mean I guess I put it out there . For that it's nice to be unmuted .

Whitten 1:05:42

It's nice for the story to be heard because of how big this issue is , because of how many people can connect to domestic violence , because of how many people can connect to being in an abusive relationship , how many people can connect to Maggie's side of it . I mean the amount of questions people reach out and ask for you because they're listening to it , wanting to know how to help their friend . So it's been interesting , as I said in this episode . At first I wasn't ready to tell my story and then it was kind of uncomfortable to talk about because it wasn't a pleasant thing to talk about , but I felt like I needed to . So it's given us a controlled space to be able to come in and talk about it and then to go downstairs and that's over Right , like we don't have to keep talking about it . We could play a game or watch RuPaul and everything's fine again . Yep , it's also who knows what's going to continue to happen in our world , so it's nice to have been heard . Yeah , I'm proud of you , proud of to have been heard .

Maggie 1:06:33

Yeah , I'm proud of you . I'm proud of you . I'm more proud of you .

Whitten 1:06:37

I know it wasn't easy , thank you , and so until next time . We're going to go back on mute , bye , bye .